{The List} Civilizations ver. II

[Brent]

Trait System

This would probably have to be a Civ5 idea if anyhting, but...

I guess each civ should have 20 points to divide among the Traits.

World powers always group their points in groups of 4 or 5. They could assign more than one group of 4 or more than one group of 5 to the same Trait. Maybe the groups would be grouped by 10 even, and maybe it wouldn't be allowed to put all 20 points in the same Trait.

So the most powerful or "important" civs, maybe the most famous ancient civs too, would be restricted to groups of maybe 20, and there would be a second rank at 10, and so on. You could start at 20, 10, 5, or 4. 20 probably wouldn't be interesting enough for the best known civs, and I like the idea of starting with 5 and having the next rank being only slightly lower at 4. There's also a good argument for starting at 4 so each rank is easily divisible into the higher one. Les powerful or famous civs would assign their Traits based on a more powerful or famous one that they're related to, but slightly tweaked. Say the Russians assign ten points to Trait A and ten to Trait B. The Polish could assign ten to trait A, 5 to trait B, and 5 to trait C. Or it could work so that the Polish have 11A and 9B. Or the Polish could have 12A and 8B, and the Czechs could have 13A and 7B, being on the next most obscure level. The most obscure civs would be the most interesting. But I can see the problem with related civs automatically having similar Traits. You could also have ten points assigned the same way for an entire culture group and ten more assigned independently for each civ. The Civs restricted to the largest blocks of points, the most powerful or famous ones, there might be exactly one of these per culture group, possibly per culture group per era. If there are three ranks, like 4, 2, and 1, maybe there would be five in the middle rank per culture group and ten of the most obscure rank per culture group.

[Naokaukodem]

I don't know if this has its place here but here it is:

I don't like the concept of minor civs. Let's just do as if every civ is a major civ.
However, make the rising of new civs/cities on the map possible. This is based on the fact that every portion of land is inhabited by people that must fight for their culture, even if it is not represented graphically on the map, or maybe with some villages icons? At some point, those villages or free lands could emerge in a civ-type state city that would produce culture buildings and units. In some way this constitutes a minor civ system, but from a dynamic civ system that would stand for a more larger range of phenomenas. like: this same foreign population would rise onto "barbarians" units if you settle a city near a stong point of their culture, it is to say mainly far of your better culture-productive cities for example. What is the point of such a system? The point is that civ formations would be more complicated, more realistic, and would generate events like the apparition of a new hostile city. Also, it would make the player more to fight military and culturally, what would add to the gameplay IMHO. Finally, this population system would constitutes post-(civ)formation problems like revolutions or degenerations of empires in some circumtances.
PS: it would also stand for a country/region formation and/or bursting system.

[Brent]

All right, do I dare suggest/ invite/ inspire/ instigate more listing of civs? We are now transitioning into a Civ4expansion/ Civ5 list, right??

The name of the game, "civilization", doesn't neccessarily have to be applied to each individual nation in the game. It can refer to all of them together as one civilization, or to the combined civilizations of each culture group, or somewhere in between these and where it now stands.

Make it more fun , desirable, and encouraged to add ficticious civs. Have a part of the program with a step by step sequence of developing them.

Firaxis designing new civs to be included in the original release shouldn't have to take much effort, and should be done. There will always be more to add in expansions. Do not require too much/ too fancy civspecific art. Maybe use real civ names but have many of the main characteristics different each game. Civspecific art can be available, but be able to reasonably play the game without needing it.

Be able to play one chronological version of the same civ against another chronological version of the same civ.

About the Hebrews: Is conquering them in the game really any worse than conquering anyone else? Aren't other civs included that are important for only one reason, and are those reasons really more significant than religion?

[Shogun Gunner]

Civilizations identity / nationality evolution system

Civilizations identity / nationality evolution system

This thread was started by Naokaukodem and I thought it might be useful for consideration in "The List"

Here's the OP of this thread:

In Civilization, civilizations are in one block. I mean you pick the French, you pick the French, and you will continue all the way with them. You may change your governement, your strategies but never your nationality and what you are in substance. You will always have the same center, the same identity, the same power.

I think that a civilization evolves. Even if it is represented in Civilization, because it can't be avoided, I think it is the most interesting and fascinating feature of a civilization that a civilization can become another civilization. Not only, it is the most interesting feature in term of gameplay in Civilization: to see your civilization change and grow.

This is why i would want to see a system in Civilization 4 that allows an evolution of a civilization culture, power, identity. The better would be an evolution in relation with the other civilizations. It could be done through culture, appartenance feeling, revolutions, events, trade, spreading...

The other things i would want to see for a good civilization evolving is technology diversity, with large tech trees, very specific, inventive and optional technologies.

Some other things already influences this civilization evolving and specificities, like military leaders that give a civilization a good military past and present.

For sure, a Civilization game with such specifities would be a revolution: civilizations would be highly customizable and would be very realistic and generally, i think, very "civilizationish".

What do you think of this, do you think like me that it would be a revolution or just a little amelioration with no consequence on the gameplay?

[DarkCloud]

Thanks Shogun Gunner- I'm in the process of finalizing this and the master word document.

Soon we'll have a complete version!

--
and once again thanks brent for your unending flow of ideas they are much appreciated!

[DarkCloud]

All right, do I dare suggest/ invite/ inspire/ instigate more listing of civs? We are now transitioning into a Civ4expansion/ Civ5 list, right??

Well, not Civ V so much as Civ IV and civ IV exp pack. the fact that the series' license has been purchased by a new corporation may reflet a greater review of the basic concepts behind the current game development.

Admittedly, this is late to get the list out, but thankfully at least 1/4th of the list WAS done by august (which was early enough)... and now if the update is ready by the end of January, that might still end up with some ideas getting in.

It's been a messy journey- this time from Asmodean's disappearance in Dec 2003, but we have made it- at least 1/4th of the threads were summarize and many ideas were voiced that WILL be heard.

While this list will never be considered to have been as successful as Civ III's- hopefully more of its ideas itself will be implemented due to the amazing organization and in that manner, it will have been the most successful civilization list of all!

[Brent]

I can't help but notice the unending flow of the listing of civs at CFC, and the lack thereof here. Do we in general see less point therein around here? If I were to start some actual civlisting again would it be shot down? Perhaps we are simply waiting until there's new content at civ4.com and then civlisting for expansions will be the dominant activity here?

[DarkCloud]

Well, I basically don't see any point in creating a 'master list' of every civ that has ever existed in the entire span of world history and don't think that such a list actually helps the developers- thus I created the many supplemental lists- I isolated each persons' list and their reasoning behind their lists.

I think this provides the deveolpers with several different philosphies to follwoi n creating a listing of civs!